Why we oppose the Indue Ltd Cashless Debit Card

This is the post excerpt.


* Legislation governing the card trial removes Australian Citizens who have committed no crime, from full and equal protection under Anti-Discrimination Law and existing Human Rights legislation.This agreement to segregate income support recipients from the wider Australian community in this manner was not bought before the Australian people. In the current trials, the LNP have put in place the groundwork for a two tiered citizenship status based solely on income source; which is, and in the event of a nation wide card roll out will be, to have intentionally implemented a state of socioeconomic apartheid.

* We reject the notion it is acceptable in any way to force individuals to enter into financial relationships and/or legally binding third party contracts with corporate entities against their will, simply because they are receiving income support benefits.

* We reject the statement this card is ” Just like any other bank card” and make our concerns clear in our video ‘The Healthy Welfare Card Vol;3 Myth Busting : ” Its just like a regular bank debit card ”

* We reject the specious statements aired in press, that millions of lives will be “unaffected” or experience only ” minor inconvenience” when hit by a sudden and forced exclusion from the cash economy, from equality of participation within society, and the social, legal and personal costs of reductions in choice and in citizenship status.

* We reject the notion that the trial locations are a genuine representative sample of the lives and living conditions being faced by the total body of income support recipients across Australia [approximately five million citizens]. We hold that trial results can not be applied unilaterally outside of these trial locations’ unique geographic and micro-socal circumstances.

* We reject the use of unverified data and the welfare stereotypes and prejudices being expressed by Alan Tudge et al, in press and in parliament in order to sway political and public perception towards an antagonistic view of income support recipients. And we reject wholly, the unfounded and unsubstantiated presumption that all people receiving income support suffer from the same disease of alcoholism, or share in addictions, idleness and gambling obsessions. We further reject the assumption that we are all fiscally incompetent, uneducated or under-educated and/or morally and socially deficient in any way.

* We reject the notion that the privatisation of the currently nationalised Australian welfare payments system is in our National Interest; that handing the national welfare budget and payment systems to a private corporation closely affiliated to the current serving government, is anything other than an example of inter-generational political incompetency and stewardship failure. We hold that this attempt at privatisation of one of our largest government portfolio’s is part of a wider as yet undisclosed privatisation agenda and as such, it is and will be undermining to the present and future health and safety of those dependent upon these systems and all citizens who through taxation pay for them.

* We hold that it is inappropriate for a serving government minister and a local council to be currying favor in the press, on social media and in Parliament for further roll outs of the Indue LTD HWC where no independent study or review has been undertaken in either trial site and where full costings and modeling for the intended national roll out of the Indue LTD HWC card have yet to be offered publicly for debate. A situation only compounded given the personal costs being born by individual income recipients have not even been heard formally, let alone evaluated and while the easily estimated expected increase of over 11 billion dollars to the national welfare budget should the card roll out nationally has not been openly declared.

* We particularly reject the lies being told by Alan Tudge and the Ceduna Council in media and in Parliament regarding crime statistics and the percentages of “benefit” being credited to the HWC trial as these percentages are being used to foster in parliament and in the public at large the illusion the “card is working well”. We have proven these claims are false and that Mr Tudges statements are dangerously omissive and have made our proof publicly available for witness in our video “Special Edition” where we clearly show the figures quoted of a 30% decrease in legal contacts and use of alcohol related social services use is NOT owing to the card but to a further exclusion of the most vulnerable population from Ceduna’s town boundaries.






Conversation bewteen our SNSAdmin and Mr Rick Wilson MP.

PLEASE NOTE:  A decision has been made by admins to snip all but the last two posts for brevity ( …… ) as they contained no information pertinant to the fact that Mr Wilson knew there were problems or us detailing problems.

Mr Wilson knew of these cases and yet and said nothing in media, and it appears by the Ministers comments yesterday, that he has not informed Dan Tehan of the existence of these problems either.

While the conversation was engaged in private messenger, at no time did Mr Wilson indicate to us this conversation was off the record.

We are not seeking to defame Mr Wilson in any way.  Our aim is only to underscore our argument that problems do exist in the Goldfields region CDC roll out process and that Mr Wilson knew about these problems prior to the media article released yesterday by the ABC.

We concede from the outset that Mr Wilson has assisted some people we referred and some that self referred, that is not at question or the point of our post today.

These messages were exchanged during the time period 7/5/2018 – 14/5/2018.




Mr Wilson, these two families are in urgent need of assistance and exemption from the CDC trial. Politics and even card positions aside, we are asking that you please examine these cases and assist these two families to get the support and help they need. These families both meet criteria for a well being exemption and are being put through hell instead. Conscious cruelty is never acceptable and these people need an intervening action immediately, especially Bev and her acutely disabled son. – admin, SNS.

[ A video link to the CDC No Card page was provided and a confirmation email was sent.]

Dear ……..  I have also responded to an email on this matter to the effect that I cannot open this video, so cannot comment on its content other than to say


Hello. Inaccessible links are likely the result of blocking people from posting on your Facebook we would suppose. If you unblock NAME REDACTED specifically, you may be able to see it and hear what is being said. We will pass on the information however one of the families HAS engaged with the local office and 5 weeks later is still being given the run around the other only found out about such a center even existing last week, such as been the deplorable information provision. 


There has been considerable media about the opening of the support offices…Former Minister for Human Services, Alan Tudge MP and I visited Boulder on opening day and it was on the front page of the Kalgoorlie Miner.



Well Mr Wilson, this mother of a 70% brain damaged adult child that cant talk speak or move as he is a double amputee didn’t get your media or press releases. Perhaps she was too busy or any number of reasons why she may not have seen any of it.
I note you still have not provided any information to assist me in contacting this constituent or enhancing the DSS process.I have not been contacted by this constituent, but have forwarded your concerns to the DSS for them to attempt to track down this particular case.Please provide her contact details or ask her to contact me directly Rick.Wilson.MP@aph.gov.au if you truly wish to be of assistance.
Mr Wilson both families have the contact details, and we are helping them to help themselves. More information is not what they need. They have the information. Answers is what they need and answers are not forthcoming from the contact numbers given. So we are assisting them where we can directly and indirectly, as we said we would. If you would like to do something useful, you may want to look into the situation at Bega which is a growing sore that needs attention. – snsAdmin.


RICK WILSON: I have never been approached by anyone with the issues you described, and you consistently refuse to share the information that will allow me to help them. Likewise I have not been approached with any issues about Bega. I have the ear of the Ministers responsible for the issues and accusations you are describing, but you do not appear keen to facilitate any assistance I can offer.

ADMIN:  We have already passed on your contact details on Mr Wilson, and without breeching confidentiality we CAN’T share information of a personal nature with you than what has already been shared by these families themselves on the pages they have written to. What more can we do for you? Why should we need to do your job at all?
One of the families mentioned was in the Kalgoorlie CDC office yesterday, what more can SHE do? These are NOT “accusations” we are relaying to you, they are peoples own shared stories made on a PUBLIC page anyone can read for themselves.

My office has contacted “Bev” through Facebook…I cannot make her accept my assistance. You would be doing my constituents and the CDC participants you claim to care about, a huge favor if you helped rather than hindered this process. It makes one question your motives (?).



Mr Wilson. That you would resort to this gutter, to question our motives and insinuate about us as you are, says more about you than us.




Mr Wilson I direct your attention to another desperate case in Kalgoorlie that requires immediate attention. A mother of two, a woman with intellectual disabilities, Brenda is struggling severely after being placed on the card and requires immediate support and intervention.



ADMIN: I am happy to concede that much at this time at least in regards to responses we have received and in the appearance of it. We know the people you are speaking off and assistance provided there as well which is why we have made the effort to approach you today at all. I know you are also unaware of the flood of mail we receive on a daily basis from your region from people who simply cannot cope, and until now you did not know we have, since the first announcement in February, had to support 14 people from your region who were at immediate suicide risk. One, only two nights ago has since fled the area and there is little now we can do.

As for Bev, Bev helped herself after being provided facts and procedure information she could use. Bev was too irate to speak with you and was able to gain her own exemption for her son on her own which was the better outcome in any case.  – SnsAdmin.


It would be greatly appreciated if you can encourage people to contact my office directly…We are local, and can assist in other areas you may not have experience in. For example, a recent CDC participant felt her only issue was accessing on-line shopping….it turns out she is probably eligible for HACC assistance with not only shopping, but transport, gardening, housecleaning, etc. Somehow she had not been made aware of this by her GP or other service providers. BTW she has also been enabled to access on-line shopping, but in addition connected to even greater local support.



Rick, we have tried, we have even begged people to do just that. To contact your office and flood you with their problems and to contact local service providers. You seem to not comprehend though, that people do not trust you any longer; not when this card represents to almost all of us, the removal of our personal autonomy and basic freedom of choice and worse. In the wholesale slandering of Social Security recipients by you and your government in media, you are undercutting the very objectives you just stated you wish to meet.
What you have stated here alone, is proof that community attention and effort to engage actual people, works to better peoples livesnot that the card is working or useful at all, as all the card has done little but created pain and confusion which is clear by our own inbox and the pages trying to stop the roll out or at least, impact the national CDC debate.

One more major point to note, is local services are as yet still quite uninformed especially about DSP needs and of the Indue terms and conditions requirements. That does need addressing urgently. Indue’s terms are what restrict accounts and service group illiteracy in that area is a growing concern and major part of why people aren’t feeling supported.


[ Side point to note, several people we have spoken to have reported trying to access contacts and services provided by Rick and have been turned away, or were given rote replies or non-answers that are not useful to them and havent helped clear confusion.several people have written they were denied help outright. Though there have been a  few sucesses, most with unresolved complaints are reporting they have been flatly referred back to the Department and CDC reps who have not read Indue’s terms and condtions  are sending people to DSS and DSS is sending them to Indue, and back again/visa versa. The ping pong match continues]


RICK WILSON ( full post):
Let me know if you want me to provide contact details for any of the above CDC support centres, Shires or MPs if they do not want to contact me directly. I have become the poster boy for imposing this on my community, but there is considerable back story, which is available in my speeches on this matter, and local media. There are severe social issues everyone experiences in the Goldfields as a result of welfare driven drug and alcohol abuse and gambling. Most people on welfare payments should not experience hardship unless their welfare money is being mis-used.This is a trial…Let’s see if it can have an effect where nothing else yet has. I think people are being brainwashed into thinking this is a punishment, yet almost every element of society is trending towards a cashless lifestyle.

I have a Card, and I am using it everywhere I can to ensure it works and to see if there is any stigma associated with it. I have not experienced vendors even noticing the difference between it and a regular card….even when it was rejected in a liquor outlet!
As far as your comments about my job to inform people….There has been considerable media over the past 2 years about the CDC as an option for the Goldfields…Then the Prime Minister announced it to our community!
Prior to its introduction, I sent mail outs to every household via Australia Post unaddressed mail, as well as every email address in my database, there was a hard copy and electronic petition, all with full information. The community has engaged the whole time. There has been over 270 face-to-face community consultations and hundreds of emails directly answering queries. As mentioned the DSP, medical, business and other service providers as well as local government authorities are all well informed and supportive. The CDC team here in the Goldfields is working hard to ensure card participants can continue to access the services and purchases they always have. I appreciate Yu referring people to wherever they feel most comfortable seeking help.

ADMIN ( Full Post):

[ At this point I lost it, he didn’t seem to comprehend despite being given direct links to pages, that people were already reporting openly and publicly on their self support pages that they had not been able to participate in any surveys conducted, that entire communities had been overlooked in the mail out. People were and still are reporting that they have been blocked by him from repeating that fact on social media. He didnt seem to comprehend that people were being turned away from services, or that most people on the page were expressing that they were feeling punished, and were describing real emotions they were experiencing, not being brainwashed by anyone. He was essentially gaslighting them and us, and this got me mad. Except for a few condescending remarks,  he didnt seem concerned for the people at all only how the rollout went. Not one person on any page, group or email contact we have made, has reported being ‘enaged’ by Mr Wilson in ANY of the processes leading up to the Card roll out or events subsequently. “The community” consultation it seems didn’t include the views or input of Social Security recipeints themselves from the onset.  snsadmin]

Show us your facts Mr Wilson as regards WELFARE DRIVEN alcoholism et al. In Kununurra it amounted to just 44 people who are STILL causing trouble and drinking now even after 2 years on CDC so please show us YOUR data or stop making false claims. To date we have had NO claim of this nature backed up by verified data, no one has.

People are experiencing hardship in the first instance because this card is removing their PERSONAL FREEDOMS Mr Wilson. CHOICE, SELF DETERMINATION, their RIGHTS under law. These are significant HARMS you are refusing to even acknowledge and they are just more of the same Andrew Forrest straw-man arguments in any case.

It is not up to governments to dictate how anyone uses their income. Australia is being forced into a cashless society Mr Wilson it has not agreed to it or voted for it. LNP are taking license where no mandate has been given to them. This card forces Australian taxpaying citizens to contract with a private corporation AGAINST THEIR WILL, that is the very definition of fascism! As a granddaughter of ANZACS and a sister daughter and mother of service men who have fought and died for MY freedom you insult me by the premise this is in any way acceptable!

YOUR CARD IS NOT RESTRICTED Mr Wilson. See our argument on that here: https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/posts/503075163420636

This political STUNT is not useful! In your position of course YOU face no stigma, and the use of the card or colour of it is not the only stigma attached to the process or the card in public use either! You cannot possibly be that shortsighted or simple-minded!

When I posted your comment on consultation on my private page, the response was laughter and then rage from people in YOUR community not just my learned friends. You are ignoring the fact you did not include or consult with people who were to be impacted by the card BEFORE DECIDING to roll out the card MR WILSON and you blocked their feedback on your Facebook page so you KNOW that there was significant backlash!

Your failure to include centrelink recipients as EQUAL MEMBERS OF YOUR COMMUNITY from the GET GO has made ANY claim you make to consultation thereafter a sad and sick joke.

Please see OUR arguments tabled in Senate on the issue of the MAJORITY of centrelink recipients the ‘rest of us’ those you are degrading and belittling and infringing upon for NO JUST REASON. https://saynoseven.wordpress.com/2017/11/05/document-full-tabled-argument-cdc-senate-enquiry-november-2nd-2017-canberra-the-rest-of-us/

Out of the 189 submissions the Senate committee received the vast majority are against the card and have major concerns. Our government and YOU have chosen to ignore this! https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Community_Affairs/CashlessDebitCard/Submissions

EVERY LEADING WELFARE AGENCY IN THE COUNTRY IS OPPOSED TO THIS CARD! An unqualified known felon and vested corporate interest who openly took money from drug runners to get his first start-up going and his pack of LNP political pundits with no social welfare experience or qualifications whatsoever do NOT have the background or education to be determining impact and outcomes for ANYONE!

See the absolute FARCE of card restrictions and at least CONSIDER the cost to your community in active predation by the cashed up and evil, already visible in current zones in rapes of children, store owner grafting and manipulation by companies and businesses. These realities are being experienced NOW and impacting people on income support directly. People have already been charged with these predatory crimes! Yet you ignore them!!! https://theaimn.com/service-provision-versus-prohibition-the-farce-of-cashless-debit-card-restrictions/

Just last week your government paid $12,000 dollars to put one woman on the CDC in Kalgoorlie who receives just $12 a fortnight top up payment! DOES THIS SOUND LIKE A REASONABLE EXPENDITURE OF TAX PAYER DOLLARS TO YOU?

TIME TO STOP BLAMING THE POOR FOR YOUR MANAGERIAL INEPTITUDE MR WILSON: https://theaimn.com/its-time-to-stop-blaming-the-poor/

If you wish to speak with us again, drop the party line, drop the Forrest mandated speeches and lies and just be a human. We don’t have time to sit here and counter each of your already well undermined and ignorance perpetuating claims. You are hanging yourself and we have said don’t..we have said stop…so the consequences and FULL measure of those, is on your head not ours.

I withdraw my earlier concession Mr Wilson. It is very clear from your last message that you have no idea of the issues beyond party dogma, you do not care to nor do you have any insight into the conditions being faced by your community members, and do not wish to discuss the structural cultural or social impacts of the CDC and its costs to your community and the Social Security recipient cohort as a whole. When and if that ever changes, we will be happy to again consider you informed and willing to assist.


And here are just some of the other voices of your community responding to CDC impacts in their lives.’ Most won’t experience hardship?’ It is very clear that all but a very secure and well equipped few are experiencing CDC life differently to what you think. https://www.facebook.com/pg/SAYNOSEVEN/photos/?tab=album&album_id=518246098570209    – SnsAdmin


Failing to report Goldfields distress, MP Rick Wilson focuses on the push for a Hinkler electorate roll out of the Indue Cashless Debit Card.

Yesterday, 14/05/2018  in this ABC Goldfields   article, Federal member for O’Connor Rick Wilson stated that the Goldfields rollout [ of the Indue Ltd Cashless Debit Card -CDC ] has gone “smoothly” and should be completed within a month. 

Mr Wilson states that “…he has already received positive reports about the card from the small Goldfields town of Coolgardie.”

Ignoring the fact people on the card have recently had their ability to self determine their own budgets removed and now can only spend their income at certain stores rather than making their usual purchases of goods from markets, second hand retailers and cash only outlets,  Mr Wilson goes on make full use of a slight increase noted in store purchases as early ‘evidence’ of card success. In doing so, he repeats almost verbartim the same media script used by Mayor Alan Sutor in Ceduna, post CDC roll out there in 2016.

Mr Wilson states:

“The local general store are saying their grocery sales have really gone up in the last couple of weeks,” he said. 

“They’ve seen people coming in shopping for groceries that they haven’t seen come into the shop before, and the alcohol sales in the other part of the store are down.

“That’s great news if people are spending more of their support payment on the necessities of life, as opposed to drugs and alcohol.

“That’s why the evaluation is so important, so we can quantify what we’re hearing anecdotally and go back to the parliament.”

Mr Wilson also stated, “Anecdotally that’s some of the first stories I’m hearing back”

Ignoring for a moment his gross assumption that all Social Security recipients are drunkards and addicts spending payments on their vices in the first place,  we are writing this post today to refute his latter statement highlighted above and to call out Mr Wilson for this obvious misrepresentation of the facts as they stand.

We contacted Mr Wilson over a week ago to inform him of acute distress being experienced by many members of his community, including a request for direct help for a diabetic woman who had chosen to hunger strike rather than activate the Indue Card.

We informed Mr Wilson then of her case and of the existance several other acute cases including a mother with intellectual disabilities who is continuing to struggle since being placed on the card.

Mr Wilson was made vividly aware of the abudance of distress and harm being created on the ground in Kalgoorlie and surrounds, and we were met in reply, with a series of patronisations, plattitudes,  ego defenses and then regurgitated LNP party dogma.

It is important to note, that Kalgoorlie resident Brenda, intellectually disabled mum of two, remains in distress and her mental health continues to deteriorate. Despite directing Mr Wilson personally to her posts and profile, Brenda has still  NOT been contacted by Mr Wilson’s office nor any CDC or DSS representative on the ground in Kalgoorlie. Even her own doctor, uninformed and illiterate as regards the nature of the Indue card and its impacts, is unable to assist her.

In light of this case and others still pending, for Mr Wilson to therefore claim in media that the roll out is proceeding ‘smoothly’, without any qualifying statement as regards the extent of distress being experienced by so many of his constituants, is negligent. It is misleading and we feel, an open abuse of his power and position.

It is also simply rude and intensely disrespectful and hurtful to the courageous people who have taken to social media and braved the rigours of the press today to air their grievances, only to find their struggles are being ignored at the highest levels.

The ease of this dismissal of current impacts and peoples lived experiences, underscores our opinion that Mr Wilson’s focus and priorities have not been on the welfare of his own constituants during this stressful transition from normal to forced third party income managed lives, but rather they appear squarely focused upon the LNP agenda to push for even more card roll outs across Australia, no matter the cost.

It is immediately and exceedingly clear to us  that this article was  a press release reported unchallenged and as fact by the newly budget conscious ABC;  one designed purely to set the stage with unsubstantiated ancedotes in attempt to ease the passage of as yet unpublished legislation through Parliament. Indeed the intention to move to a fourth trial site is also mentioned in the article quite brazenly.

The push towards a fourth roll out of the CDC  in the Hinkler Region [QLD] while the paint has yet to dry on the current roll out is to our view, a deliberate attempt  to direct focus away from thorough and considered examination of the problems and issues at hand in the Goldfields region.

It also appears to reflect a conscious decision by the LNP  to continue to disregard the impacts and risks that have been documented in other trial locations and so, to ignore the risks that unevaluated expansion will present to the lives and safety of thousands more potential forced “trial” participants should their push be sucessful.

This roll out at all costs mentality while actively denying the nature and number of problems that already exist, represents a grave disrespect of the people and of the parliamentry process, where the Senate as recently as February 2018 placed firm limitations on the number of roll outs permissable until 2019 for ostensibly those same reasons.

Below we include a link to a record of  conversation that took place between one of our community page admins and Mr Wilson, where he is informed of the acute impacts of the Indue card being experienced in his region. This exchange took place before the ABC article went to press.

The existence of this conversation in our record  puts to lie the claims made by Mr Wilson and gives new insight into the perception being presented to the public by him and Minister Dan Tehan in the article by ABC Goldfields yesterday.  The reality remains, that the Goldfields roll  out is in fact not procedingly ‘smoothly’ and ‘positively’ for many of the people most directly impacted by it.

The record also clarifies that Mr Wilson most certainly did know that people were experiencing desperate hardship in the region, and yet he chose intentionally to keep this information from the public record.

That Mr Wilson could so callously place party agenda and politicking before the lives and wellbeing of his own Goldfields community and constituants, is a disapointment yet sadly was not unexpected.  It is indicative of the ongoing manipulation of public opinion via media that has been inherent to the entire CDC roll out process in every location to date.

Given the extent of local anger and distress being experienced yet apparently ignored by both Mr Tehan and Mr Wilson in their public discourse at this time, this poorley timed choice to advance propaganda over acurate reporting of community experiences,  is beyond unacceptable, it is simply unconscionable.


Conversation bewteen SNSAdmin and Mr Rick Wilson MP.

While engaged in private messenger, at no time did Mr Wilson indicate to us this conversation was off the record.


History Repeating At Pace

After yet again being informed  by an LNP pundit that “Australia is going cashless anyway” – a poor attempt to avoid debate on the reality of the CDC’s current impact on Social Security recipients and a clear indication of where this government thinks it is proceeding without mandate, we offer our view of  the recent news that transactions in cash over 10K are to be banned by July 2019.

As this recent article via Gizmodo notes, the decision to limit cash transacting, will affect small businesses considerably,  with associated knock on effects to the entire community at large, which beggers belief they were not included in the LNP’s announcement. Yet this explains to us at least, why the LNP have had no concerns whatever for the impacts of the Cashless Debit Card [CDC] on small businesses either.

Again we see in the government arguments for this decision, the classic and faux assumptions and presumptions that are modus operandi to the LNP media team in action, when they use the pretext of ‘containing criminal behaviour‘ as the sole media focus, and ignore any other repurcussions of this decison in the wider community entirely.

In that alone, they are DOING IT AGAIN. They are using the same playbook tactic of ‘ look here/ignore there’ media manipulation they used on Social Security recipients in the public CDC debate; the same use of blanket generalisations and doing exactly what they did to gain public acceptance of the CDC – manufacturing consent – and no one or few it seems are even looking.

This decision,  like the decisions made to initiate and roll out the CDC, as we noted a year ago, are  not just an attack on Social Security and recipients of benefits, nor just about our personal rights already lost. We see in this encroachment by government the start of a direct attack on small business and low to middle income Australia itself and the fundemental rights of ALL Australians to be treated and considered equally under law.

In essence, these decisions to limit the economic and social freedoms of Australian taxpaying citizens are an ideologically driven right wing assault on us all, one we believe is being driven by the same corporate interests and groups with the same intentions and ideology that funded both sides and profited most from WW2. Indeed several current sponsors of the IPA, the LNP party funding base, are members of these same transational organisations and associations today!

Far from hyperbole, our assertion here is one based on reasoned and documented fact combined with an educated and profound insight into history and political patterns and behavior over the last century. We are not the only group to make this realisation that we *are* on the cusp of seriously transformative events, and given the mandate of the CDC, we are already losing our once legal freedoms. People do need to remain aware of that, it is not some dystopian future-scape – these restrictions and reductions are  happening right NOW.

We who are on or are facing CDC, know already that we are just the test bed for this modernised version of corporate Fascism, we are just the testing ground, and only the first to face the consequences YOU will all no doubt be facing soon enough should the LNP return to power and programs like the CDC continue to mission creep incrementally and expand their reference terms to include more and more people.

What they can do to us, what they have already done to us in a heartbeat of political pretext, trickery, lies and population opinon engineering through media, they can do to YOU  or any group at ANY time with a similar stroke of the legislative pen.

You are NOT immune.

It is of course, all ‘very legal’ and  on surface glance the pretexts being used seem so very sound. However legal does NOT mean it is good or that it is right, and we are reminded that under German law in 1933, the segregation and ghettoisation of the Jewish community and the Holocaust was ‘very legal’ too, and in the mechanisms of the CDC roll out and process, we do see stark echo’s of that past at work in this goverments eager willingess to dehumanise, segregate and demonise Social Security recipients today.

We social security recipients have already lost our equality and freedom under law and with ONE stroke of a pen…..just one. Stolen in a blink, to the thunderous applause of our enemies, and the silence of our friends. If our rights and freedoms as taxpaying citizens weren’t worth the effort of fighting for, are yours?

You had better decide fast too, as this government growsn increasingly desperate leading up to the next elections and there is no garuntee of security in that process. Also true, is that we who are already bearing the costs of your silence and inaction are fast running out of capacity, will, energy and position to defend you from your  media massaged and maintained ignorance.

We are not seeking to attack you. We do and compassionately comprehend the scale and the forces at play in our society right now. We know however, that the German people didn’t ‘see’ what was happening in their nation either as they like most Australians now, they were “in it” and so too close to see the wider view. Those that did come to see, later admitted to ‘singing more loudly’ in their churches as the screams from camps invaded their towns. Their entire nation and millions of lost lives still stand as testimony of the cost of that willful ignorance, inaction, shortsightedness and the price of apeaseing a rogue government.

What will you do? What line will need to be crossed for you to act?

We can only counsel that whatever you chose to do, do act soon and while you still can and have the freedom and rights in law to do so.
The LNP did not insert those fences at Parliament house for no reason. They know. They like us see all too well that the #stormscoming .

Time to stand up.






Hinkler Electorate Rollout of Cashless Cards Canned : https://www.frasercoastchronicle.com.au/…/labor-g…/3334083/…

Moree rejects cashless welfare cards [again!] in landslide Council vote: https://www.welcometocountry.org/moree-council-rejects-cas…/

Pilbara’s Indigenous leaders say no to cashless welfare card at annual Yule River meeting: http://www.abc.net.au/…/aboriginal-communities-acro…/8974388

Port Hedland Council says no to cashless welfare card: https://thewest.com.au/…/council-to-reveal-stance-on-cashle…

Geraldton Indigenous elders reject ‘unfair social experiment’:
: http://www.abc.net.au/…/geraldton-indigenous-elders…/7383366

And the people that support them : https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/photos/a.275354549526033.1073741829.275344262860395/473921929669293/?type=3&theater

What to do when Indue comes for your town.



👁Why was CDC approved for Goldfields, and not for Bundaberg? One view : https://saynoseven.wordpress.com/2018/02/15/why-was-cdc-approved-for-goldfields-and-not-for-bundaberg-one-persons-view/

WHAT DO WE WANT? : https://saynoseven.wordpress.com/2018/02/15/what-do-we-want/

CLAIMS OF IDEOLOGICAL OPPOSITION ONLY HALF THE PICTURE https://saynoseven.wordpress.com/2018/02/15/claims-of-ideological-opposition-only-show-half-the-picture/


👁Cashless Welfare Card ‘users’ denied acess to food water and electricity -Tiwi Islands.:


⚠️OUR STUFF: On Topic Off Topic..Senate Week Write Ups

👁Post Senate Week Redux : https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/posts/476682586059894

Amendments to The Australian: 11:22AM February 13, 2018

👁”Oh no you didnt!” Having Dan Tehan For Breakfast.

👁”….and don’t call me Shirley!”
A response to the member for Gilmore, Ann Sudmalis CDC HoR speech

👁” The Myth of the ” Good Community Leader”

👁Cory Bernadi shamed himself – again.

👁Not So Cheap at Thrice the Cost : The issue of ” Tax Payer Dollars” : https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/posts/477146689346817


👁A New Definition: The porkbarrel consent manufacturing scam.

👁Legislation matters and Legislation matters….. : https://saynoseven.wordpress.com/2018/02/13/250/

👁” The Rest Of Us”:

👁Abuse is not Love.

👁Claiming small victories, and the LNP’s amendments to the 2017 CDC BILL https://saynoseven.wordpress.com/…/claiming-a-victory-and-…/

👁If you are forced onto the Cashless Welfare Card:

👁Point of Clarification: Issue of having to channel funds to Indue for basic banking services if you are a casual worker- Direct Debit. https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/posts/473896686338484

👁Mayor Alan Suter – Ceduna hits record new lows.

👁” Pass me a mop” – Luke Howarth trolls the Say No Seven.

👁Luke Howarth needs a new media advisor.

👁Luke Howarth pulls his posts and runs – and then blocks everyone:

👁Hinkler Stands A rebuttle to Keith Pitt HINKLER electorate :

👁Hinkler Region ” Community Consultation” lie unravels even further.

👁Where we began……one from the vault.

👁A cautionary tale. Profit Before People.
NXT’s betrayal of centrelink recipients at Senate CDC week 2017.


👁SNS DOCUMENT : The SAY NO SEVEN Community SUBMISSION to the Senate Community Affairs: Legislation Committee Inquiry: “Social Services Legislation Amendment (Cashless Debit Card) Bill 2017” https://drive.google.com/…/0B61_7mZcal_ccFJDT2swZUNmbkk/view



👁TWITTER: @NOTOWELFARECARD : https://twitter.com/notowelfarecard?lang=en

👁SNS repsonse to Hinkler Announcement: https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/posts/422113491516804

👁A note to the Opposition – before you post.https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/posts/378854235842730

👁A New Definition. – Pork barrelling in the Card Trial Regions. :https://saynoseven.wordpress.com/2017/03/18/a-new-definition/

👁Community Panels – Major Issues: https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/posts/371357766592377

👁Fakes vs Facts : https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/posts/374655686262585

👁Online shopping, categories, transfer restrictions points to note: via our Q&A section: https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/posts/378344949226992

👁Shutting down the Tudge Trap. Public Inattention. The difference between Indue cards and a ‘normal visa debit card’ and how we can claim Mr Tudge is lying: https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/posts/374369032957917

👁CONFRONTING MR PITTS LIES AND POLITICAL SPIN: https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/posts/377275612667259:0

👁SNS responds to Keith Pitt : https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/posts/369098870151600

👁SERCO and the Sell Off of our Social Welfare Systems. – https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/posts/378360399225447

👁The issue of Consent and withdrawing consent : https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/posts/373865393008281






The payment of Social Security entitlements is an international obligation of *all* governments under law.

ICESCR Article 9 states: “The States Parties to the present Covenant recognize the right of everyone to social security, including social insurance.”

Articles 22 and 25(1) of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights : “Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to so
cial security…” “Everyone has the right to Social security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.”

Australia is a party to seven core international human rights treaties. The right to social security is contained in article 9 of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR).

See also article 5(e)(iv) of the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (CERD) , articles 11(1)(e) and 14(2)(c) of the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women , article 26 of the Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC) and article 28 of the Convention on the Rights of people with disability (CRPD).

These payments are not a ‘bonus’ or a ‘privilege’ or a ‘gift’ , they are a legal responsibility and requirement of governments and a legal and protected right for citizens.

These were hard won rights, hard fought for rights and yes they do come with responsibilities. However to assume all people on payments are not meeting those responsibilities, is an uninformed ideological judgement not a fact.

Are we really going to permit the LNP to toss these rights and responsibilities away and take us back to the 1700’s before they existed?

There is a VAST difference between being sincerely grateful for what you receive, respecting that income, and bowing down in self flagellating capitulation to a government that is determined to ignore the impacts of its own policies and political ineptitude.

This government is failing dramatically in its duty of care and it is over reaching its authority; it is failing to abide by the legal and moral responsibilities they have to the people they too are paid from our taxation pool to serve.




Where does the right to social security come from?

❂Via the Australian Attorney Generals website:

“Australia is a party to seven core international human rights treaties. The right to social security is contained in article 9 of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR).

See also article 5(e)(iv) of the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (CERD) , articles 11(1)(e) and 14(2)(c) of the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women , article 26 of the Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC) and article 28 of the Convention on the Rights of people with disability (CRPD).”

Link: https://www.ag.gov.au/…/Pu…/Pages/Righttosocialsecurity.aspx

❂International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights:
ICESCR Article 9 states: “The States Parties to the present Covenant recognize the right of everyone to social security, including social insurance”

Link: http://www.ohchr.org/…/ProfessionalInterest/Pages/CESCR.aspx

❂Articles 22 and 25(1) of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights :
“Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to soSocial security…” “Everyone has the right to Social security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.”

Link: http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

Can the right to social security be limited?

❂Article 4 of ICESCR provides that countries may subject economic social and cultural rights only to such limitations ‘as are determined by law only in so far as this may be compatible with the nature of these rights and solely for the purpose of promoting the general welfare in a democratic society’.

❂The UN Committee has stated that such limitations must be proportional and the least restrictive alternative where several types of limitations are available, and even where such limitations are permitted, they should be of limited duration and subject to review.”

This is where the LNP are overreaching their authority:

The CDC targets those who do not fit stated target criteria and their justification for the program ie: those who do not drink, use drugs, use violence or commit crimes under influence or gamble. Therefore it is not, when reasonably considered, a proportionate response to the stated program goal.

Forced third party income management and economic segregation, is NOT the ” least restrictive’ option available to this government it is in fact the most restrictive option available.

The current legislation limits full and equal application of protection under law for forced CDC trial participants, excluding them from accessing in full, their rights and protections contained within the Social Security Act 1999 and Disability, Rights of Child, Racial and other Non Disctimination Acts that would ordinarily apply to them.

The current Act and CDC legislation has NO requirement for review. NONE. Just an ‘end date’ and the Goldfields CDC cards are showing 2021 as a expiry date.

These points, individually and when combined, therefore demonstrate that the CDC does NOT meet this required criteria.



❂ Australian Human Rights Commission submission to the Cashless Debit Card Senate inquiry 2017. https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/posts/503449913383161

❂ The Consumer Action Law Centre submission (#26) to the CDC Senate inquiry 2017 : https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/posts/503720886689397

❂The Law Council of Australia submission to the CDC Inquiry. Submission #30 https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/posts/503483763379776


Unfortunately, government has access to a clause in our Social Security Act which stipulates that all Social Security payments are ‘ subject to legislative amendement’.

This government has used that ‘tool’ written into the Act and widened its ordinary definition to include empowering them to ‘amend’ our human and civil/disability/racial and other rights and protections under the Act as well, rather than just defining who is/isnt able to receive payments..

That is where the difficulty lies with regard to class actions/court cases. They are not ‘exactly’ breaking the law per say, they are bending it to an inch of its life and in our view, misusing the original intention and spirit of it.

They have simply dismissed the Human Rights Commissioners statement and the recommendations of the HRC as a group, as well as other recommendations from the Law Society and other legally qualified groups – this is a serious matter in itself, and so, it is up to the HRC to stand by its statement that this program does not meet human rights standards, and act on it before any of us are liekly to get a chance.

We feel that the HRC will need to lead the legal pathway and instigate any legal challenge to the Act itself, which they havent and are unlikely to as the HRC are hanging by a political thread themselves and the IPA and LNP using Cory Bernadi, want to abolsih the Federal Commission and repatriate the matter of upholding Human Rights to the States.
We dont need a degree in metaphysics to foresee that such a shift could place these State run commissions in the LNP’s political hands as oposed to its current Federal auspice if they lose the next federal election. It also and most importantly pushes Human Rights over all, even further away from the cabinet room making it more likely they will be ignored or sumarily dismissed.

See Cori’s HRC abolition private members Bill here: https://www.aph.gov.au/…/Bills…/Bills_Search_Results/Result…

CDC 2017 Legislation here:

Social Security at 1999 here:



A rebuttle by the SNS to a recent press artcile by Mr Keith Pitt member for Hinkler. Located here:


Dear Mr Keith Pitt

75% of the ” people that have contacted my office” – is not a representative statistic of your community, nor is it submissible data in any sense. It also stands a pale second to public polls undertaken within the Hinkler community local media that place your regions response at minimum 81% against the roll out in Bundaberg, 85% against in Hervey Bay and 82% on a second one for Hinkler as a whole, the one you yourself called for.
[See images attached below.]

Your much lauded “survey”, where actual voting privilges only existed in one of three flyers delivered – voting rights only extended at all to select and LNP friendly households; has already been tabled in the Senate and stands on the Hansard record, as evidence of your consistant inability to act honourably within your own electorate and to tell the truth in national and local media and from the floor of parliament over the last twelve months.

There is no one considered informed of this situation, who is not also acutely aware that you are currently out of favor with the LNP party room and are desperate to regain your position and reputation. Know please, that we will support those who choose to resist you and any attempt you make to misuse your power and risk the lives of vulnerable Australians in order to acheive this goal.

The Senate has voted Mr Pitt and we feel it is about time you accepted that. They voted as late as February this year to limit trials; they have made their decision and they have made it FOR GOOD REASON.

The actions this leglislation permits are life altering for those directly impacted and their communities; the program as a whole is an unqualifed expense as yet not even disclosed to the Australian public in full; the Orima data as analysed by Dr Janet Hunt of the ANU has shown 77% no positive outcome in current trials, and the impact of the card on our small businesses and our Human Economic Privacy and Civil Rights position as a nation and as these relate to equality of a single teir citizenship reality ongoing, have far reaching structural and social implications for ALL Australians regardless of income status.

This policy is not something that CAN let alone SHOULD be ‘rushed out’ based on your personal wants and political beliefs, nor any foot stomping temper tantrum you may make in press. The CDC will remain subject to the parliamentry process and public scruitiny whether you like that, or not.

The SENATE has considered the issues and has limited “trial” locations to three regions for sound practical and moral reasons and has decided that any future roll outs to be considered must follow a set due process. Your own party has stated in the budget just two days ago, that a new evaluation must take place. Why then are you so unwilling to wait for the results and that data BEFORE endangering or risking many more lives?

That you would seek to ignore this safety measure and be so eager to risk the lives health and safety of your own constituants, speaks volumes and says a great deal about the person and politician you are and the vengence and power you are seeking in this endeavour.

As you were informed by the Queensland Teachers Union statement and in their submission to Senate Inquiry, the area teachers themselves and the families of local students have rebutted your claim that ‘ 1000 children a day’ were ‘starving’ in Bundaerg and Hevery Bay. This was a FALSE claim – intentional scare mongering and an outright lie intended to promote your Indue card position. It has no basis in fact OR in data.

As you are also more than fully aware, the Indue LTD Cashless Debit Card creates NO employment whatsoever except for Indue Ltd CEOS and associated LNP contractors and lobbyist groups. Given the cards inability to address the actual and manual issues that underly social inequality, or to magically arrest addictions, reduce crime, change social living conditions for the better or to alter aggressive globalist LNP policies that have gutted the employment sector, it cannot perform any of the miracles you are attributing to it.

It can, as forced third party income management has for the last 13 years, only ever cement poverty, create more welfare dependancy and fail to meet any objective laid out by those that support it. These are well DOCUMENTED failures, not simply our opinion.

As a tool of ideology, and functionally, it can only restrict people from accessing cash. That’s it. Structurally, where change is needed most, it does absolutely nothing for your community in the positive and offers in return only a great expense and many negatives. It will not serve your community at all, it cannot. It can only ever serve the ego and whims of those few to whom you have promised control and other incentives in order to support your and your party’s agendas and crusade.

Dare we say it Mr Pitt, if your community is in such a dire state, and conditions are so bad as you say, then what have you been doing or not doing for the last five years in office that the situation has been permitted by you to deteriorate at all ?

Surely as the Federal representative for Hinkler electorate, you more than any other person, bear full responsiblity and culpability for any conditions that may prevail, as we are sure you would equally try to claim full praise and reward were things going swimmingly. Given you are the one who is accountable, why then do you seek to make your constituants responsible and seek to force them to carry your burden and bear the cost of your inaction?

It remains, whether you like it or not, want it to or not, or are happy about it or not, because of your impatience and unwillingness to accept the Senate decison, you must present a whole new Bill to parliament in order to effect any roll out in your region.

We understand having to do that aggravates you, as losing out to a bunch of elder disabled community members in your war on facts must have been a significant embarrassment for you indeed. None the less, resistance was successful, and the current legislation reflects that victory. We don’t need sour grapes dictating political policy and proceedure. Now or ever.

This new Bill, like the last, is not garunteed passage either, it will be subject to all the same laborious parliamentry processes undertaken by hundreds of peple over the past two years in the intial crafting of the current legislation; it will add additional time and cost and waste millions of taxpayer dollars in the effort to slam it through both Senate and the House and then, into your community, as well as the costs and time for any committe or inquiry it’s appearance may justify. All the while creating more instability and insecurity in your region as it does so. Cost/benefit ratios alone demonstrate this is a selfish and reckless act.

All that needless waste of time and effort purely because you are impatient and so willing to risk lives to see your agenda served you would ignore the valid concerns of social welfare agencies, alcohol and drug experts in the field, academics and your own community. And you need only see todays reponses to your media announcement to see your own communities sentiments on the matter.

Mr Pitt. We welcome the challenge of any new legislation, especially so close to a Federal election. Be assured we will make the most of the opportunity yet again, to demonstrate the inefficacy of the CDCT program on the national stage, and to share with the general public the true impact and nature of CDC and CDCT.

We look forward to the opportunity to discuss, disclose and provide verified and documented data and information about the CDC to your community and the nation, information that you have closted and denied them since the onset of the program; and we look foward to doing so with a much more informed and aware, wider national audience now engaged.


– SNS.